Welcome to Day 8 of the Clockwork Prince Read Along. You can follow the entire read-a-long and find each of the day's posts here. Remember there's no right or wrong way to participate. Your comments can be as long or a short as you'd like them to be. You can answer one or each of the questions asked, it's totally up to you, BUT, in order to be entered into the CP giveaway (which you also had to sign up to win), you do need to be actively participating in the read-a-long.
Today's discussion is about: Chapter 7
- When Will first started talking to Magnus, he said, "Jem is my greatest sin." What do yo make this comment? Do you think he really feels that way?
- Oh Will! My heart totally broke for Will in this chapter upon finding out about the demon, his curse and his sister. Now everything makes sense with why he acts the way he does. Why he pushes those he loves away. Why the thinks he is unloveable, is poisonous, is cursed. Do you think the demon cursed Will? Who do you think is behind the message the demon gave him?
- I love Magnus in this chapter. Aside from Jem, I feel like Magnus sees through to who Will really is. Much like Jem, he can at least reason with Will when there's no chance in talking hope into him. I love the question Magnus asks Will, "Are you not concerned with me?" Do you guys think Magnus loves him or does Magnus, like he admitted to himself, just have a weakness for blue eyes and helping the desperate?
Please DO NOT POST SPOILERS. There's some fans who are joining the read-a-long who are reading Clockwork Prince for the first time.
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I think that Will is talking about loving him and being connected to him. He doesn't let anyone close to him and yet somehow he let Jem into his life.
ReplyDeleteI really hope Will is not actually cursed when it comes to loving people and them loving him back. If he is however, I hope they find the demon who did it and get rid of him.
I don't think Magnus loves him, but I think he is starting to care for Will. I think that he sees who Will really is and that opens the soft spot a little more.
I think he really does feel that way. he knew that Jem was going to die. however I dont think Jem is his greatest sin.
ReplyDeleteOh Will! He was so young and he had to bear that lie. he truly is brave and good. he wanted to protect his family. i really hope that the demon didn't curse him. he doesn't deserve. the message could from another demon or maybe Mortmain.
I dont think Magnus loves will like a boyfriend, i think he see s him more as a friend. he is the only one who knows the truth and knows the reasons behind the way will is.
This is one of my favorite chapters.
ReplyDeleteMagnus and Will are my two favorites characters across the board including all characters in TID and TMI, and their “moments” together are some of my very favorite and this one is no exception.
I like this chapter because we finally understand what was torturing Will and why he was always such an ass-hat when obviously he always seem to be making an effort in order be one… I remember feeling almost relived as crazy as it sounds when I read this chapter for the first time, I finally understood, and finally knew that there was no doubt Will was capable to loving and being kind and most important that he wasn’t bipolar….
Since this is not the first time I read it I specially like that part when he tells Magnus: “I feel myself diminished, parts of me spiraling away into the darkness, that which is good and honest and true-If you hold it away from yourself long enough, do you lose it entirely? If no one care for you at all, do you even really exist?” Aaaaaaahhhhh I love that he quotes this…it always makes me teary eyed.
And again it gets very much hinted how important Aloysius Starkweather will become to the story, when we see Tessa see herself in his mind’s eye and the shock that he felt when he saw her, to me that shock he felt screams of recognition… the question is why? And even now having finished CP and read it several time I still have that question, I have a theory on it that I will share when we have all finished the book next month
Another question that still remains for me for which I have no theories is why did Starkweather feel the hatred he did for the Shades? What did they do to him, for him to hate them so much? I mean yeah based of what they knew John Shade was in possession of the book of the white and of course he had all these evils plans and stuff but did it merit such heart felt hatred from a guy in his 20’s… I think there is something else to the story of of the Shades and Mortmain and Aloysius Starkweather… is it March 19th yet!?!?
My heart broke for Will in this chapter, as it does every time I re-read this book.
ReplyDeleteI am curious to find out if there is a reason that Tessa see's herself in Starkweather's memories, as he did have a strange reaction to her when they visited the York institute.
This is one of my favorite chapters in the book. I loved it. It broke my heart and made me love Will so much more.
ReplyDelete* When he says Jem is his greatest sin that makes me so sad. He knows that Jem will die either way, so I think that that is the only reason he has allowed that for himself.
* I don't believe that what the demon said is literal. Like I don't think everyone who loves Will will drop dead. Obviously other people love him whether he thinks they do or not.
* I think that Magnus has grown to care for Will. Not in a boyfriend type way, but as a friend and as someone who Will can go to.
Those were my thoughts the first time I read it. I think that I got more out of this chapter after this re-read though.
I hope Will doesn't mean that! Jem is wonderful, I love him so much!
ReplyDeleteI don't think the demon cursed him. If he did, almost everyone in the institute would be dead.
I think Magnus just has a weakness for blue eyes. Because we all know who he's going to end up with in the future...:)
Marie Oliva
~I think what Will means by "Jem is my greatest sin," is that he loves Jem because he KNOWS that Jem is dying. Jem is the exception to that curse, and Will is able to love him, even when he can't love anyone else.
ReplyDelete~I think Magnus's feelings for Will are a combination of both--he helps Will because he can't help but feel drawn to him; Will draws everyone to him, I think, even if they don't know it, or he himself does not know it. I'm not very fond of Will, but I have to admit that there's something I can't help but like about him--or maybe that's just because I have a weird thing for people in pain. I.e, love, curses, etc.
"Jem is my greatest sin." Aww, my heart aches with Will. I do think he really feels this way. Jem is very much the only family left for Will and he would pretty much do anything for him. I think William feels some sort of responsibility to Jem and also, Will feels very much indebted to Jem even if the latter doesn't think so.
ReplyDeleteI have already read the book and I feel like I cannot comment on this fairly since I've read the truth of the curse and everything about it. That was something not everyone could live with though. And surely that explains why Will pushes everyone away and acts like he doesn't care. (I really really hope Will finds his happy ending)
Magnus. Hmmm, Magnus is very unexpected. He does things sometimes no one would expect and even at times that he seems indifferent, he really isn't. As for what he feels with Will, I think it's not exactly love but some sort of affection - not romantically of course. He does see the good in Will and I think he sees just how broken Will is and he would very much want to help him (and that's exactly what he did).
And considering Will asks very few people for help, it just shows that he trusts Magnus.
Will is such a self-loather. He hates everything he does, every choice he makes, to the point that he hates who he has become. Everything he does feels like a sin to him, Jem in his eyes is the worst one he can make. Will befriended a boy already dying to tell himself his curse wouldn’t matter one way or another, because Jem is dying anyway. It’s a thought I’m sure he hates himself for having. But to desire human contact and try so hard to stay away from it—to long for relations in any sense would make a person do desperate things. Will covets the friendship and love others have, and Jem is the only person he can allow himself to get close to with as little guilt as possible. Will really does feel bad about being friends with Jem, but he loves Jem like a brother and is grateful to have him. Poor Will tortures himself with his complex and conflicting feelings. I still think they would be friends if there wasn’t a curse.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds to me like the demon really cursed Will. It did say it planned to kill everyone who loved him and then Ella died, from what looked like a sting or a poison. The demon also said that those who loved him wouldn’t die instantly—that it would take time in some cases. But it is a demon. Can we believe what it says? It could just be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because Will is so terrified it will happen, and goes out of his way to stop it, it’s going to happen anyway. Eventually everyone dies, and as a Shadowhunter life is short. So when Will’s loved ones die, he believes it is the curse when it could just be the short life of a Shadowhunter. Perhaps the curse is simply mind over matter. I didn’t think anyone had sent the message through the demon, more along the lines that the demon just cursed the first person he saw after being let out of the Pyxis. But now that it’s brought up, I wonder if maybe the demon was meant for Edmund, Will’s dad. Charlotte said that Edmund had a gambling problem and the first thing I thought of was the Pandemonium Club, of the gambling rings Mortmain had in his back pocket. I thought that’s how Mortmain got the Herondales into Ravenscar Manor, blackmail for gambling debts. But now I wonder if at first, Mortmain tried a demon to get back at Edmund, but instead it got to Will. Needless to say, the Herondales are in deep with the Magister.
Magnus is just an awesome character. I doubt he’s in love with Will but he’s definitely got a soft spot for him. Then again Will did say that pity can become attachment and then eventually compassion or real affection. Uncle Maggie could be falling for those blue eyes, much like Tessa did. He did seem quite pleased that Will was able to distract him from his sad thoughts of Camille, who seems to have lost interest in the warlock these days.
I was glad to see Tessa decide to Change into Starkweather and intrigued by his failing mind. The thoughts Tessa got to see really brought some interesting questions to ponder. Starkweather really cared about Adele, whoever she was. And he seemed to hate the Shades quite vehemently. I wonder if it had to do with the Shades just being warlocks as Downworlders, and Starkweather as a Shadowhunter naturally couldn't stand them. Then to see the couple with a child of their own, creating Clockwork automatons, and using the Book of White…maybe that in its-self turned Starkweather against them. I keep thinking Adele has something to do with it but this whole thing happened before her time. Then there’s his strange recognition of Tessa. We still don’t know why he recognized her or how.
Then Tessa sees Mrs. Dark outside and doesn't do anything about it. Am I the only one who wanted to punch her? I don’t care if you thought you were seeing things. Tell someone that you saw her or thought you saw her at least! If that comes back to bite her on the butt I will scream at the book, ‘I told you so!’
I think he believes what he said about Jem's being his greatest sin. It's a way of "cheating" the curse in a way. I do think Will feels this way because he truly loves Jem, and he feels so undeserving of anyone's love.
ReplyDeleteThe demon certainly cursed his sister, Ella. But it doesn't really matter whether or not the demon really cursed Will because WIll believes in the curse's power. That's what matters!
I think Magnus is certainly infatuated to a certain extent, and it does seem to be based on his weakness for WIll's looks and his being a lost cause, but at this point I think Magnus is very much still pining away for Camille.
I haven't read Chapter One yet of Clockwork Princess....it's killing me, though. I'll read it once I finish the Clockwork Prince re-read.
I love Will more with each chapter. How is that possible??? I think he feels a bit of guilt thinking Jem was dying anyway, what could it hurt to let him near? Such immense self loathing. He was indeed far tii young to endure such torture. And the decisions he's had to make? Impossible for a child let alone a young man. Is the curse literal? I'm not certain yet. Will of course believes it is.
ReplyDeleteI think Magnus has affection for Will. Despite his frivolousness he cares deeply for some people. Perhaps he feels guilt for the pain and suffering some of his actions have caused.
I'm beginning to think I might love this series more then TMI. The maturity and intensity of feelings these characters display is profound and heartbreaking. I'm left a mess after each chapter.
*I honestly love Will and this chapter makes me love him more because we see aside of him that we don't get to see to often. I think that him saying that Jem is his greatest sin means that it is an easy way to allow atleast one person to die for loving him since he is dying anyway. He will feel horrible when he dies but at the same time he won't have to blame himself for Jem's death.
ReplyDelete*I feel like if Will believes he is curesed than he truly is but at the same time why would his dad keep the demon in the house after leaving the Shadowhunters. This demon has to have some significance to the father or family. Maybe with Mortmain putting up Will's family in his house has something to do with the demon and their past. Will was probably cursed to keep the family in line.
*I can honestly say based not what TMI and how Magnus acts in TID he is in love with Will. Magnus falls in love with Alec for the same reasons he loves Will. I do believe he has a weakness for blue eyes but he falls in love with desperate cases.
Poor William! What a tragic past. I think he feels guilty himself because of he's past and he's future. He thought that Jem is his punishment.
ReplyDeleteNow we know that who is the real Will, but won't he turn to be the type of Will who was him mask? I don't know which one is the worst: If the curse is true or if It's fake.
Magnus has a big heart. But I think he doesn't loves Will. He just care for him. Magnus see that who is Will.
CP READ-ALONG
ReplyDeleteWOW, I thought of that and I'm still baffled. I can't really say what Will's trying to say, hmm .. Maybe bc I don't fully understand that full/underlined meaning of "sin." But from what I can guess, Jem is someone he loves and also regrets. He loves Jem, above everyone else at the London Institute. He's been caring for Jem and both are parabatais with the connection and understandability that no one else will ever understand. When Will says "Jem is his greatest sin," it could also mean he will and can do, or give anything for or to Jem. Jem comes first wether his love for Tessa is strong, his love and bond for Jem is stronger. Will knows Jem will die of his illness but bc he already is, and with Will's curse and all, with Will's undying love and affection for Jem, it won't be Will's fault that Jem could die bc of his love. I think Will feels many things. He seems tormented inside. Jem is the only person Will can love without directly killing him as a result of his curse.
I think if there's any constellations to it, it could be a legit curse. But through reading all of TMI series, I haven't heard or read of such. The most unexplainable are the sightings of Valentine and Raphael and their projections, like how does that work if they don't use technology like that OR DO THEY!!!!!!!! Magic from the warlocks? Never heard of demons casting curses before or they all or some would of done such already. And we would of heard or read of any mentions from Cassie. It wouldn't be something new in CP, but TID series is a 'prequel' so this is probably an intro of something or some sort. Btw, Will was only 12, could you blame him for not being so rational in what's believable or not? The message could mean anything or just babble but if we're seriously discussing.. I think it could be a message from Mortmain himself. I still believe Will's father had some dealings with the Shades and the demon who cursed Will could be working with Mortmain or was or was captured by Will's father when the demon was dealing with Mortmain or the Shades. That's probably why Will's family is a target of Mortmain's.
I think with all the constant dealings with a beautiful creature like Will, Magnus has curved a soft spot in his heart for Will. He's come to care for him, Magnus has even said it himself or thought to himself (pg 138-139) "He was really going to have to do something about this annoying softhearted impulse to assist the desperate, Magnus thought. That, and his weakness for blue eyes." ^_* I think anyone like Tessa, Jem or Magnus with the constant interactions and dealings with Will and his emotions and feelings and anything related to Will, you grow to love and accept him and see through all his flaws and imperfection. I love Will too! ^_^¥